Casino in Rochester?
Rochester, N.Y.) – Mayor Robert Duffy says he is open to the idea of a casino downtown, and even called the Seneca Nation to learn more.
“I had made a phone call - two phone calls - going back a year ago, just to ask, because people ask me and I certainly want to get all the information that I can,” Duffy said.
The mayor said the Senecas did not return his call. Duffy said he has since learned the Senecas are not interested in building in urban areas. The Seneca Nation has exclusive rights to operate casinos in Western New York, and has facilities in Niagara Falls, Salamanca, and Buffalo.
OK - open to the idea because the City needs to raise money.
Perhaps Mayor Duffy should talk to David Cay Johnston - or read his book.
Oh, this line in the article was precious -
Any casino proposal would not only need the Seneca Nation, but private developers, and state and local support.
A casino is a bad, really bad idea.
What do you think?
Related posts:
I think that the Democrats in this city have been trying for too many years to build “a bridge” into the city. Each bridge they build never does what it is supposed to do. IE: Fast Ferry. We need atractions in Downtown for people to go to prior to building any bridges. There are also talks of reopening the canal through downtown. I see that as a bird bath in a garden. But guess what… You need flowers in the garder before someone is going to take the time to walk into it. Lets focus on getting a few atractions in the city NOT with government funds. Step aside, roll out the red carpet, and allow PRIVATE money to come in and do what it does best. Shoot for a return. THEN, we can bring more housing and “bird baths” downtown. Stop wasting my money on silly things until you are actually making money please city leadership. Bring on the casino…
Is this the same private money they continually depends on government funds to work? IDAs? Empire Zones? RenSquare? etc?
I have no problem with a urban downtown casino. It will not by itself resurrect our downtown but in concert with other regional venues/events/activities it can significantly help. It does create a 24-7 environment and it will sustain interest in the central district as the “regional center” of our metro region of a million plus population. Sure there are some downsides of a casino…much of the activity stays within its complex …but again…people will visit downtown Rochester and be entertained by a wide spectrum of activities…not just gambling. There would be national entertainment acts, a wide variety of restaurants, nightclubs, convention activity within its complex…bringing in a major boost to tourism into our region. And the jobs created will be much higher in salaries than a comparable regional development like a shopping mall.
An upscale casino complex doesn’t have to define our downtown…it just complements it…creating another regional activity for our central city. We should not fear a casino…but embrace it. Just look at many world class cities that have accepted and thrived with a downtown Casino. They work. But don’t just focus on Las Vegas or Niagara Falls, U.S. …they are the extremes. There is a formula for a casino that could work in downtown Rochester. I applaud the Mayor for investigating its possibilities…it’s a shame the original proposal was rejected by Mayor Johnson.
National entertainment acts? Yeah, bring on Wayne Newton and Robert Goulet!
Are you attempting humor or being serious? If you’re serious, you must not pay much attention to the acts that have played at Turning Stone or Casino Niagara lately. Admittedly, they aren’t stadium filling singers/groups but are very well known and popular just the same.
I wouldn’t be too concerned about sin central coming to your precious barren wasteland of a downtown though. Without the Seneca Nation on board this project isn’t going anywhere and based on the State’s recent actions toward the Sovereign Nation of Indians, that ain’t happenin’ anytime soon. In the meantime, all those localized private revenues will continue to flow to Canandaigua, Batavia, Niagara Falls, and Verona.
On the 31st floor, a gold plated door won’t keep out the Lord’s burning rain.
Oh, and I pay absolutely NO attention to Turning Stone or Niagara. The whole idea of casinos makes me nauseous.
What’s to pay attention at the casino? You’ve never heard; “so and so will be at….” on the radio or tv? I don’t gamble at all but have enjoyed many fine shows at both performance venues. Last year I took my son and some friends out to eat at Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse inside the Mohegan Sun Casino in Wilkes Barre, PA because it’s the closest one, without crossing into Canada, and none of us spent a dime outside of the restaurant there either. You don’t have to gamble to enjoy yourself inside a building that houses a casino.
I’m wondering why you would go to a casino just to eat at a restaurant. Don’t they have restaurants where you live?
One of the many problems with a casino is how they are designed. Casinos are designed to keep people in so the money is spent in the casino not elsewhere so it becomes the designation.
Another issue is ownership - Current state law (the constitution) prohibits gambling (no I don’ t know how NYS gets away with Lotto) but you need the Seneca indians. To enable a casino you will give land to the Seneca to do with what they want but the land sovereignty is transferred to the Indians. So NYS laws don’t apply.
This is a can of worms that opens up.
There certainly is money to be made with a casino but I’m afraid the city won’t see it - developers and operators will but the Deck is stacked against the city.
I think the casino is a very bad idea, but I also think gambling is a very bad idea. The idea that the city would be making money off of people’s very bad habits, which for some is just fun, but for many, is a self-destructive habit which destroys families and lives.
skanky
Robert Goulet is dead and so too this casino idea should be buried.
Gaming taxes those least able to afford it and causes social problems.It is the equivalent of another regressive tax
Let’s have fewer polices designed to suck money out the besieged middle class
Tax the rich and use he money to create real jobs
People who want to gamble are going to gamble whether to the west or to the east or even online.
Change the constitution to allow state sponsored gaming. Its in Las Vegas, Atlantic City and they are not paying one dime to the native americans. Don’t pay the indians and keep 100% of the profit in state run venture, then I say “let’s roll”
Yep, and people who want to hire prostitutes will do so, shall we legalize that, too? Actually, I would prefer that to a casino.
I’m genuinely curious, why?
Because then the CDC could be involved and health regulations could be in place and the women would be healthier and taxing it could provide a much needed revenue to the city. Oldest profession in the world. It’s not going away.
Okay, I guess…… can’t wait to see Progressives get behind that ballot initiative. Yep, got yourselves a real winning cause there. You should have no trouble getting all sorts of politicians lining up in support of that come election time.
I’m OK with the legalized prostitution for the reasons stated.
Let’s build up the city while adding to voters problems by giving them the opportunity to have a gambling addiction.
People foolishly losing their money is considered a good thing?? Really?
There is just a major economic misunderstanding about Indian Casinos and its effect on a downtown /city/region. Sure Indian Casinos like to concentrate activity within its complex….exactly what any other private developer would like to do. Its irrelevant who owns the casino…an Indian tribe or a private developer. They both seek to maximize revenue and attract as many people as possible. When an Indian Tribe collects profits it deposits it in large banks just like private developers. The only unique issue with Indian Tribes is the ownership and sovereignty of the land that lies underneath a casino. This issue is usually dealt with by a negotiated annual fee given to a local government in lieu of property taxes. In Rochester’s case the city would see significant economic benefits…jobs, jobs, jobs, a constant 24-7 flow of tourists (local and regional), airport activity, taxis service, nearby hotels, convention business, improvement of image and a wide assortment of business activity that does not exist in downtown Rochester today…..AND without a heavy public subsidy!!
The new Casino in Niagara Falls/Canada is not operated by a Indian Tribe…but it’s operational plan is the same for an Indian Tribe. Even though the Niagara Falls casino tries to concentrate most of its activities within its complex….its presence in downtown Niagara Falls has been a financial boon to the total downtown district and the city of Niagara Falls, Ontario Province and the country of Canada. Don’t get overly concerned about tribal ownership…it’s just another type of private ownership.
And please ….let’s not talk about the abuse of gambling by individuals. Every aspect of life, we have abuses. Do we eliminate grocery stores because some people eat too much, or eliminate smoking because some people smoke too much…or alcohol or what about shopping malls where some people spend way too much money??? Accept the fact it’s the nature of people to get excited about a wide spectrum of activities. Just make sure you have programs to deal with such abuses…don’t deny the masses such entertainment because some abuse it.
Personally, I have never gambled…but I have often visited casinos and realize the excitement such facilities can generate. And Rochester desperately needs additional types of entertainment and JOBS!
Funny about ownership Ontario Canada casinos are owned by the provinces and probably paying for Canada health care, Money inside the casino stays with the owners. The added “boom” (all those taxi drivers etc) does require public assistance and as a stand alone activity it will detract rather enhance.
I’ll lat someone else address the casino success in Buffalo and Niagara falls.
we just have to disagree here.
The casinos in Niagara Falls, ON are owned and operated by the Province. The revenue from them goes into provincial coffers to pay for health care and other social needs. The casinos in Niagara Falls, ON are also integrated into existing entertainment destinations (the one near Clifton Hill) or planned in such a way as to be as to be accessible from the outside - walking distance from myriad hotels and restaurants. In addition, the Fallsview Casino has its own shopping mall.
Now, all this is well and good but the significant difference is that the shops in that mall pay taxes. The businesses and the casinos play by provincial rules. If you slip & fall, you can sue in an Ontario court. If you get robbed, you call the regular police.
This isn’t true when you plop a sovereign exclave smack in your downtown. Senecas don’t play by the same rules as other businesses in town. The Seneca Niagara Casino has brought a smattering of jobs and it does buy food and supplies from local businesses, most of whom have near-monopolies on that sort of business, anyway. I’ll grant you that there is some positive economic benefit from that.
But the Seneca Niagara Casino is an island unto itself. It is completely separate both legally and actually from its surroundings. Legal jurisdiction is totally different. You’re technically no longer in New York State. The entire thing is surrounded by surface parking. Mom & pop restaurants and bars that were already struggling to survive on adjacent streets are now completely gone. How can they compete with tax-free meals or bars that allow smoking?
If New York is to have casinos, that’s fine. They should be subject to the taxation that any business pays, subject to laws and regulations that its neighbors are subject to. The constitution needs to be amended to permit, for instance, Donald Trump or Steve Wynn to build a casino right next door to the Senecas’ facility. The Senecas are permitted to run casinos on tribal lands. It is a legal fiction and maneuver that they’ve been able to finagle these properties in downtown Niagara Falls and Buffalo.
In addition, while it is true that payments are made by the Senecas for the privilege of poaching business from surrounding restaurants and bars, and in lieu of taxes, but the payments made go almost exclusively to Albany. A very small percentage of that money flows back to the host municipality. I don’t remember the exact figure, but it comes out to something like 5% of slot revenue only - not table games - just slots.
The way the racinos get around the constitutional prohibition is that those video slots are supposedly interlinked so you’re playing against other people, so it’s a game rather than pure chance. I don’t buy it, but whatever.
I don’t get caught up in the morality of it. I get caught up in the fact that it’s a bad deal for the host municipality, and on top of that the planning in WNY is so piss-poor that there will be no integration with the surrounding community, and will do just about nothing to enhance a downtown area.
Niagara Falls, NY is exhibit A. The Buffalo Creek Casino never got built due to financial problems - we have steel girders sitting there just rusting, so I have no clue how the Senecas would justify starting construction in Rochester. But we do have this fantastic barn-like facility, which doesn’t so much scream, “Vegas!” as it does, “Olean!”
Ruth’s Chris isn’t just a restaurant. Aside from Peter Luger’s in NYC, it and Morton’s are the best steakhouses in this country you’ll ever eat in. As I posted previously, the one in Wilkes-Bare, Pa is closest to this area without going to Canada. And before you bring it up, I’ve been to Black and Blue a few times - no comparison.
While I support the concept of a downtown Casino and think that if properly executed could create many positive economic benefits…..I am also very realistic about its chances. This is probably the worst of times for any discussion of any new gaming facility. With the worst recession since the depression, drastic reduction is personal wealth and the prospects for a protracted period of economic/financial pain even existing casinos are bleeding. But if any chances are available for downtown Rochester to obtain a Casino, it is imperative that Mayor Duffy nurture the concept and aggressively pursue any realistic plan/strategy. Our region must think outside of our typical conservative box when it comes to creating new and exciting initiatives to stimulate economic and demographic growth in our region.
Great thread.
IMO: we already have gambling in Rochester, it’s just illegal and unregulated. It’d be nice to legalize and strictly control it but that’s probably a political impossibility. So then, why is Duffy even talking about it?
Just raise taxes again…no addiction in that.
The City will not benefit as much as you think.