Do you really want to give Gay people equal rights?
Earlier in the week, I had the pleasure of listening to Todd Plank of the PRIDE agenda discuss, well, the PRIDE agenda. He discussed all the bills pending in the State Legislature. The Dignity of All Students Act, the Gender non-discrimination Act, and, of course, same-sex marriage came up. Especially with Governor Paterson’s pending introduction of a same-sex marriage bill which he did yesterday (check out the D&C and City news coverage).
Anyway - during the discussion the subject came up about the terms Marriage, Civil Unions, Domestic Partners. We have had numerous debates here and RT’s stance has always been for the use of the word Marriage. Others have advocated for ‘Civil Unions”. Well there is a reason “Marriage” over “Civil Unions”.
Here is the deal Via a Pride Agenda document -
Civil unions are an institution created by an individual state (such as New Jersey) to give same-sex couples the rights and responsibilities granted by state government to married couples. Domestic partnership is the status granted by some public and private entities (such as an employer, or a local or state government) to legally recognize an unmarried couple.
OK - there are mechanisms to provide some level of financial benefit to same-sex couples - without using the term “marriage”. But wait, there is more…
Neither civil unions nor domestic partnerships are the same as marriage, however. Neither secure the federal rights and responsibilities that come with marriage, such as Social Security survivor benefits and immigration rights.
That is the whole Defense of Marriage Act - thing - at a Federal level - no benefits. Not good but the fundamental rub is this.
Because it is undetermined whether civil unions or domestic partnerships will be recognized outside of jurisdictions that grant them, same-sex couples in these relationships may lose their legal protections when they relocate or travel.
That is it - Marriage is recognized across borders. Civil Unions are not. Driving across a border when suddenly your legal relationshipchanged because that jurisdiction didn’t recognize it. You were no longer a parent or a spouse. That just seems odd to me.
Those advocating Civil Unions, do you really want to give Gay people equal rights? Well, change everyone’s existing “marriage” to a “Civil Union” or simply allow them to be “Married”. I vote for marriage - by a religious institution, if so allowed by that particular religious dogma, or by the State.
Because, as Plank mentioned, the term “marriage” is the currency of commitment. People know what being married is - but being in a Civil Union? Well, different meanings in different places.
We tried the “separate but equal thing” and it didn’t work out so well.
You either have equal rights or you don’t.
Related posts:
There should be equal rights for all no question.
Halfway measures are cumbersome and are not needed
It’s this simple…if gay people are good enough to serve in the military, be police officers and firefighters and die for their country; their country owes them the full enjoyment of their rights.
But openly gay people are not good enough to serve in the military…
Let’s not forget the other inequities as highlighed in my D&C letter to the editor:
Tax Day reminds us of inequality
Tax Day is here and I am reminded that my spouse, Anne, and I are legal strangers in the eyes of our federal and state government. We are a legally married same-sex couple, but we are forced into a legal lie as we must check “single” for tax filing status. We must pretend our finances and future are not intertwined and forgo access to the many economic safety nets our tax dollars fund such as Social Security survivor benefits, spousal inheritance benefits, Medicaid spousal benefits and the ability to file taxes jointly.
Gay and lesbian people need equal rights for equal taxes paid.
Equality demands repeal of the federal Defense of Marriage Act and passage of the marriage equality bill in the New York state Senate this year. Discrimination is taxing.
—BESS WATTS
Bess, you are quite right, discrimination is taxing. By its very definition, discrimination is treating different classes differently. Unfortunately, most people are not consistent with their values. I support gay marriage because I oppose discrimination. I also oppose any and all government taxation that takes money from one group and gives it to another. Government social programs, bailouts, stimulus packages and unequal tax rates are all discriminatory.
If all of you who favor gay marriage would also oppose the programs I highlighted, you will find yourselves acting in a consistent manner. Otherwise you are just cherry picking issues and solutions based on personal preference without the application of true values.
MikeWNT, you are so right on!
Why it’s perfectly clear that if New York grants all citizens equal rights that is exactly the same reason why we can not have tax supported police departments, fire services and public schools.
Another absolutely inane anaolgy.
Being gay, I still prefer the term “civil union”.
I don’t want to be associated with marriage because at this point, marriage has such a terrible reputation and a very high divorce rate.
I’m also willing to let churches have the term “marriage”. I’m not a big fan of organized religion.
To each his own -
I’m sure those folks who have been long married - want to be “married” - not “civil-unioned”.
I’m sure, or at least hope you agree, that the way to granting equal rights is not to create a separate class.
Become a unitiarian.
What about the 1300 rights (IIRC) that married couples get, courtesy of the term “marriage”? I agree that there’s a long-term solution, but do we throw gay committed couples under the bus in the meantime?
Either “All Men are Created Equal…” or we are living a lie. I prefer not to live a lie.
Easy answer. Yes.
Segregation, discrimination and hate have no room in 2009. We’re better than that.
I come from a totally different place on this issue. Just like I wouldn’t buy a house as an investment, I wouldn’t marry a man to get tax breaks. That wouldn’t even cross my mind.
It amazes me that supposedly the number one issue that breaks up marriages–money–is the one issue used as evidence of why gays should be able to marry–filing a joint tax return. Wow, how romantic
The tax breaks for married couples are discriminatory and should be ended.
I agree with you on that, Mike.
Finally, MikeWNT gets something right!
The only people known to factor a tax exemption into the decsion to marry are republicans. And if the exemption goes away, maybe they’ll stop marrying; and since-God forbid- they don’t engage in extra-marital sex (umless they’re in an airport restroom) it could be a way to stop them from reproducing…
[...] was a rally for tax rights rally - The Governor introduces same-sex Marriage bill but do we really want equal rights for Gays? Sometimes I wonder. Is Notre Dame pissed at [...]
[...] when I asked if we really wanted to give gay people equal rights with regards to marriage? The point of that post was that civil unions do not extend beyond state lines - unlike marriages - [...]