Are the fundamentals of our economy strong?
John McCain thinks so
Do Dale Sweetland, Chris Lee, and Randy Kuhl think so too? I’m guessing Dan Maffei, Alice Kryzan, and Eric Massa don’t.
Yesterday’s liquidation of Lehman Brothers was the biggest bank collapse since the 1930s and AIG may represent an even larger collapse.
Can you have large bank collapses in the context of a fundamentally strong economy? What caused this crisis and what can be done about it?
These are questions that should be answered by everyone running for federal office.
Related posts:
None of the repubs will dare question the neo-Reaganomic model for fear of the Club for Growth
I’m not sure what’s going on right now fits into even that flawed model.
experts say everything is okay.
Wait they don’t
Experts are much more worried than the public. Greenspan called it a “once in a century event.” Given that it’s partly his fault, he probably means it.
Now how about you listen to the rest of the statement he made instead of just the small portion you highlighted. Or do you have a problem with things like American ingenuity, hard work, and innovation. That is what he was talking about. He also said, in the very next sentence; “these are very, very difficult times”.
That is really dumb, even coming from your. The fundamentals of the economy are not measured by how hard the people work. Otherwise, Mexico would be the strongest economy in the world.
Sarcasm is not becoming in one so clueless, my friend.
I’m sorry, I’ll never say anything bad about the economy again, because it means that I am against American ingenuity, hard work and innovation.
In fact, we should never criticize America, because this country is so weak and delicate, that any criticism will break it. It’s in the Constitution.
Really?! Then explain how my company had the best year ever this year since we opened the doors over 25 years ago, primarily because of those very attributes he listed. Apparently, actually owning a business and having the responsibility for 40+ employees, I wouldn’t know anything about what Senator McCain was referring to. Silly me, what was I thinking.
You’re right. One small company having a good year means the whole economy is strong.
Forgive me for not understanding that the entire world revolves around your 40 person company, Mr. Gates.
I don’t mind that you use this post a pretext to brag about your amazing business skills, but if you think you can tell me that the economy is strong based on your 40 person company and not have me laugh in your face, you’re mistaken.
I didn’t say that. I said that the attributes Senator McCain mentioned are valid, for any business, mine included. All successful business owners have used those very things to achieve. Often, it’s the ones who either sit back on their laurels or become greedy that have problems.
You can laugh in my face or call me names. That’s okay, part of that whole; you’re all smarter than me. I get it.
That’s okay, part of that whole; you’re all smarter than me. I get it
You’re missing the point. You made a lot of good points when we discussed radio. Now you’re just sticking out your tongue and saying “nanny nanny boo boo.” If I didn’t think you had something smarter to say, I wouldn’t get so annoyed.
So Exile, why do you hate America?
Don’t you see you’re just aiding the terrorists?
OK now girls…
McCain makes a good point. There is a strong foundation to our system.
Unfortunately for his argument, the reason the economy is “fundamentally strong” has nothing to do with our instant situation. It’s because leaders such as FDR put into motion federal protections [and yikes! yes regulations and bureacracies] that provide a cushion and safeguards against free fall disasters such as those created by Hoover and the republicans.
Good old FDR - the father of profiling.
It’s a great day for FDR, Elmer. We’re nationalizing the insurance and financial industries.
You’re right. We shouldn’t talk about our economic problems. That makes us look weak to the terrorists.
Imagine if the terrorists packaged a whole bunch of high risk loans into AAA bonds and convinced all the big investment banks to buy them. That could have led to losses in the hundreds of billions.
I would think you would hate FDR for the way he trampled the constitution and treated minorities. I am surprised any of you even bring him up,
Elmer,
Why? It’s OK to recognize that leaders, any and all, do both good things and bad things.
It’s part of that human being thing.
A reasoned person looks at the total and then makes a judgement based on facts.
FDR made mistakes, the biggest this governemnt apolgized for and made reparations. But overall, he was one of the best presidents we had.
FDR pulled us out of the Great Depression brought on by republican policies; held us together during one of the darkest periods in history, the Second World War; and created a society in which “United We Stand” meant something.
Yes, I guess that would surprise you.
FDR did many good things - but if Bush did to our Muslims citizens what FDR did to our Japanese citizens you would ask to borrow one of my rifles and lead a mob down to Washington.
Wrong again Elmer. More of your making assumptions about people rather than arguing facts.
I do what I do lawfully. When I disagree with the government I do not engage in armed insurrection, that’s treason. I do it by excercising my rights.
And Elmer, a trampling of the constitution is what’s happening at Gitmo. A suspension of our conservative belief in the constitution. No habeas corpus, no fair trial, no due process. When we engage in that behavior we are no better than the Taliban.
These behaviors are charactertistic of those that hate America.
FDR, along with Churchill, and probably even moreso than Churchill, was the most important figure of the 20th century. I don’t think anyone can seriously question that.
It’s easy to forget that our entire civilization almost collapsed in the 30s and 40s.
Ya know - I understand why he did what he did - and I agree that he is the most important figure of the century - but there is a double standard - people worry about Gitmo and conveniently overlook what FDR did to our own citizens. If he were a Republican he would be called a racist.
What FDR did to Japanese-Americans was terrible and racist. Thomas Jefferson, without whom we might not be a democracy, kept slaves and had children with them.
I have no problem criticizing figures for their shortcomings, regardless of how great these figures were.
If George Bush had defeated Hitler and led us through the great deperession, or written the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, I’d cut him more slack , you know?
So two wrongs make a right Elmer? Or is Gitmo already a “right” in your mind? if not the Japanese internments justify Gitmo? That seems to be your argument.
Then there is the smoke screen of implied double standard. Not to put words in Publius’ mouth but I’m sure Publius would feel what FDR did with respect to the Internments was a “wrong”.
FDR also tried to pack the Supreme Court too and was rightfully rebuked (that whole checks and balances thing) .
Remember - FDR got brought up originally in this thread because regulations instituted during his administration. Regulations that over time have been gutted or watered down.
Somehow the conversation shifted to FDR’s faults as opposed to institutional protections instituted to prevent the concentration of corporate power that we have now.
He probably did all that in his own mind
Elmer,
Please try just this once to be objective, I and others have clearly stated that what FDR did was wrong. It goes without saying it was racially motivated.
Does this ring a bell,”…FDR made mistakes, the biggest this government apolgized for and made reparations.”?
There’s no double standard.
The difference, some people learned from that mistake, this administartion did not. Ergo, Gitmo.
Publius - if you look at one of my posts above you will see that I agreed with Exile that FDR was the most important person of the 20th century. I also said I understand why he did what he did.
The apology you speak of came from Bill Clinton.
http://history1900s.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbs.org%2Fchildofcamp%2Fhistory%2Fclinton.html
The magnitude of what he did, and the number of actual US citizens involved make his “mistake” far greater than George Bush’s.
I do think that something should have been done with the prisoners at Gitmo a long time ago but, not being progressive, I didn’t lose any sleep over it.
I forgot to mention it, but Bill Clinton blamed this on three things:
1. Racial Prjudice (IMO - true)
2. Wartime Hysteria (IMO - true)
3. Lack of Political Leadership (he’s your guy saying this)
That doesn’t excuse your “double standard’ accusation.
And this justification that “your guy was worse that my guy”, is simply childish gibberish intended to cover up another failed argument.
Depressing…but probably true.
Elmer,
“The magnitude of what he did, and the number of actual US citizens involved make his “mistake” far greater than George Bush’s.”
Do you mean this? Are you measuring the magnitude of these by numbers? Do you know what they are?
Are you comparing the internment of the Japanese-Americans, who were housed by family unit and allowed to serve in the military, many with distinction, with the imprisonment of men in cells, with orange jumpsuits, suffering indignity after indignity, chained to the floor and tortured ?
That is so bizarre. I can only surmise you know little about the internment process or the conditions at Gitmo, or you are simply being a troll.
At least, in theory, many of the people in Gitmo were terrorists or terrorist supporters. All the Japanese did was work, pay taxes, take care of their neighbors, maybe even work for progressive causes, breathe, etc.
And I believe there were about 110,000 folks taken away from where they live and put in camps.
All this just because they weren’t white. So I guess it wasn’t comparable to what Bush did at Gitmo, it was worse
Its not a theory, it’s an assumption, that has been falling apart quickly since habeas corpus was restored. In fact, there have been less than a dozen cases of anyone at Gitmo being found to actually be a terrorist.
That said, to say it’s much worse doesn’t wash.
And frankly to say youy don’t lose any sleep over what America has done is certainly disconcerting.
Are you including torture? That doesn’t bother you that we’ve been torturing innocent people?
Torture? Are you talking about the 3000 people who burned to death in the Trade Towers or the ones that were beheaded on film?
So, are you trying to imply that it’s ok to torture innocent people in retribution for the people who were killed during 911?
That’s not an implication.
He’s saying it. Although it’s been long established that almost no one at Gitmo had anything to do with 9/11, or that torture violates our very core principles as a nation, and violates our constitution, it doesn’t matter.
That it is in direct opposition to what America stands for whether we argue that it’s in the constitution or just our fundamental sense of justice, it is counter to what America has long stood for.
Why people like Elmer hate the very things that made America special amongst nations is both sad and frightening. The troubling part is that he most likely doesn’t understand how much he hates America.
Don’t put words in my mouth - I didn’t say it was ok to torture people, but we must always remember the other tortures that have taken place.
As long as you want to do a comparison, please let me know about any public beheadings that took place at Gitmo.
Elmer, at the risk of everyone jumping on top of me, public beheadings are not torture. Torture is done to garner information from prisoners. Once beheaded, you’re not gonna get squat.
I think maybe you should ask how many of these tortured prisoners die from the wounds that are inflicted during torture. Ummmmm, I do think this has happened-it certainly did at Abu Ghraib.
Well I suppose you are right in some way - but is it mental torture when your captors tell you for weeks they are going to behead you? Torture is also done for pleasure, and at least think about the families at home who get to watch one of their loved ones beheaded.
Well, if your company did well, then the entire economy must just be doing great. Makes perfect sense. What a bunch of whiners.
There you go again Elmer, trying to justify things like torture and the trampling of the constitution by using childhood arguments. Someone else did it so that makes it OK.
No one put words in your mouth. You wrote it, you said you weren’t going to lose any sleep over what was going on in Gitmo, remember that?
I am not justifying anything, but it makes me wonder that the only torture you seem to be upset with is the torture allegedly done by American Soldiers.
Lose sleep no. If you really want to lose sleep think about the people in Darfur or Rawanda. Or think about Iran or about womens’ rights in the Islamic world.
There you go again Elmer with illogical responses.
You continually make assumptions and then draw conclusions based upon those assumptions disregarding the facts. I neither said nor did I indicate in any manner that torture and cruelty by anyone was justifiable. Certainly what happened in Rwanda was horrible. And Bill Clinton has repeatedly admitted it was the biggest mistake of his presidency and regrets his inaction. What is happening in Darfur is simply genocide and inexcusable.
Torture destroys, as the Israeli’s and Brits have found, any moral authority, and is at the end of the day counterproductive. And in this case it’s my country that is doing it. It is my country that is engaging in this ugly and cruel practice. We are nothing when we lose our moral authority, we when abandon our core principles, when we trample on the rights of other human beings. We cannot defeat the terrorists when we behave as terrorists. We cannot defend the constitution by disregarding it.
But I never said that torture or beheadings or whatever by anyone was not troubling. It is of special importance though when it’s done by my country, because it is wrong I can still do something about it.
Remember Ms Dogood you’re debating with a guy who thinks federal medical research grants are a left wing extermist scheme somehow related to the Second Amendment.
[...] start with John McCain and his belief that the fundamentals of the Economy are strong. He is right because the redirecting tax dollars to cover other people’s risk, caused by lack [...]