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Geek Corner
Ok, it’s cute and all. I’d rather a progressive steel-toed boot. That’s just me. I’d prefer big-ass Dads like me who have a real appreciation for the hardships that our kids face than this …ok, I’ll say it….pussified vagueness.
But, that’s just a scarred old progressive like me.
I think one has to look at this ad and all as as a contributer to the cause as opposed to a single end.
But that is just me. Ultimately different types fo ads to reach different types of people.
This is pretty much an ad that personifies the stereotype. Gimme an ad that shows the hard-ass people I sent to college. Give me an ad that shows battle-scarred survivors who are coming back to the block. I come from Democrats. When I sweat., it smells like coke, and I mean from the steel plants, not from pop. I’m sick to death of letting Republicans steal hard work from me. My people built this country. We own it.
I’m not being contentious. This is me being an old Dem.
I agree. I’m not sure who the target audience is - but I think it’s the already converted. And I think it does play into the stereotype of many of those who voted Republican in the past.I want to reach the folks who believed the Bush-t. And I think progressives have to figure out with our advertisinghow Bush reached them and aim the ads in that direction. I think we have to make them think they want to sit down for a coffee or beer with Obama. Or that Obama is the morally correct choice. Or fiscally. Or safest in terms of this country’s security. And I think they’ve got to think he’s tough. This actually could undermine that goal.
It might work in a limited setting like on facebook pages or something like that. I don’t think it would play well on TV and I’m not sure it’s clear enough that it is not an ad from the Obama campaign itself.
I think MoveOn was one of the factors that helped Bush beat Kerry. Obama seems to be in a position where the election is his to loose. If I were Obama I would hope that Michael Moore and MoveOn sit out this election.
Elmer - how so (Moveon won the election for Bush)?
I think Kerry beat Kerry by not fighting back with regards to attacks. That is different this cycle with Obama reacting immediately to McCain attacks.
Got to disagree with the premise here..
But as we are talking about MoveOn. Which is 10 years old btw
Check out this entire article about MoveOn in the Nation magazine.
or this one at TPM.
I really think some of Michael Moore’s over the top activities turned off some people. I also noted that it was just one of many factors. I still feel that the election is Obama’s to loose and don’t feel that he needs any “help” from MoveOn.
I suppose it depends which people you are taking about.
I’m guessing groups like MoveOn and the right wing equivalent or individuals like Moore and his right wing equivalent turn “off” and as well turn “on” various segments of the total population.
I agree that the Dems can win or lose this national election. I also strongly beleive that Kerry’s lack of response until he nick of too late hurt him significantly.
Much like McGovern believed that eventually people would just realize Nixon was a “bad” guy. How did that work out.? From this video.
The ad is cute, amusing, but it seems to be the kind of ad that would appeal to the kind of people who don’t vote and probably won’t vote anyway. What is needed are ads that stir people to want to vote.
I agree - he let the swiftboating occur, without forceful responses, thinking he was taking some type of moral highground. And he conceded when all the votes should have been counted (although Bush probably would have won given purges and shenanigans in Florida). Moveon has been critically important in reconstituting the progressive movement, but it, like every other organization, occasionally has missteps. I don’t think 2004 was one of them.
Elmer -
I think Michael Moore said, in Fahrenheit 9/11, a lot of what the press should have been saying. Potential witnesses or people with knowledge being allowed to leave the country (while we’re locking up poor people with no knowledge at Guantanamo), oil as the motivation (who is trying to invest in Iraqi oil this week?), and more. His manner may be tough for some to handle, but the message was, and is, an important one.
What’s your criticism of this ad, though? Personally, I like political ads that are positive a little off-kilter, whichever side they’re coming from.
I think it’s aimed at younger people who probably do want to vote but aren’t in the habit, yet. I suppose that this will sound like a conservative thing to say but voting, like most other civic duties, is often a matter of habit. The quicker we can get young people in the habit of voting, the better off we’ll be. Once people get the political habit, they get more engaged. And the greater the number of people who are engaged, the better the system works.
I guess one of the questions is does it add more than it subtracts. If it’s not going to effectively move voters who either wouldn’t vote for Obama, or wouldn’t vote, there’s not much plus. And although it might make us feel good about him, I don’t know that it’s going to affect the inertia of either of those two types of individuals. So I don’t see much plus. On the negative, I do think it feeds into the lefty stereotypes (and I’m one, so I don’t mind them when applied to me). But where Obama is concerned, the non-progressive public must feel confident that he’s a strong, realistic candidate with real credentials - not just a feel-good figure. And I think that this ad could play into the fears, biases and prejudices of those who don’t tend to vote for Democrats.
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