Greece Mall Curfew - How Old is too Young?
Check out this article in the D&C.
A few weeks ago, there was a fight in Greece which resulted in arrests. The solution - add a heavier security presence and ban people younger than 19 from the Mall.
Mall officials on Thursday announced a new policy that prohibits youths younger than age 19 from the mall after 4 p.m. on Fridays and Saturdays unless they’re with a parent, legal guardian, aunt, uncle or grandparent.
Why?
Town Supervisor John Auberger urged mall owners to adopt such a policy last month after two fights involving teens broke out at the mall Feb. 16, which led to eight arrests that Saturday night.
OK - so younger than 19.
That seems odd to me. 18 year olds are no longer considered a minor. There are legal things they can do without parental consent. Legally, they don’t have to disclose certain information to their parents.
Bottom line - there is some legal protections gained when they turn 18 just as they lose the legal protections of being a younger than 18.
Seems odd and wrong.
The mall is private property, I believe, and they can exclude anyone they want to exclude.
I think such a curfew is misguided in this case. The curfew hurts teens who are not out to cause trouble, and it hurts the store owners who will undoubtedly notice their sales declining during curfew hours. What I would support is greater security at the mall, and a zero tolerance policy for misbehavior, and/or gang-like activity. Should you be found in violation of the zero tolerance policy, not only are the police called and you are arrested, but you specifically are banned from the mall.
Do some research into how much COMIDA funds this mall has been given. I believe that past a certain $ value, it’s owned by the county…
Is that so? COMIDA gives a private company more than some limit of $$$, and the county now legally owns something that was built by that private company? Could you document your assertion somehow? I have never heard of anything of the sort.
over 9 million dollars Paige - yes - they have sold themselves to the devil you know as Maggie.
Don’t put the sheep clothes on around me. You knew exactly what I was referring to.
If it is now owned by the county, as you say, why did John Auberger have to urge the mall owners to adopt such a policy? Why didn’t he simply ask our beloved and fair county executive to make the change in policy?
They have donated so much money Paige, that the Mall will bend to the whim of the GOP. The county doesn’t legally own them, they own them by the methods they are best known for - blackmail.
Just go to the COMIDA site or google Mall At Greece Ridge COMIDA…
They monies they have been “fronted” were guaranteed to product 4 whole jobs.
Why did Augerger have the authority? Do your homework. Everyone elected in the Town of Greece holds an administration job in the Brooks barracks. Little John dated the Queen at one point. This isn’t rocket science.
Ah, so you are changing your story. First, it’s the county own the property, and now they don’t really own the property. Thanks for clearing that up. I’ll keep that in mind while evaluating your other points.
I’m not changing my story one bit. You wish that I would stop letting people know that the Mall At Greece Ridge has received MILLIONS of COMIDA dollars and a such, their loyalty is to their corporate welfare source, but I won’t stop talking about it.
And because you are so adament about trying to derail the train, I will talk about even more.
Let Maggie know that you have to get up earlier. What’s more upsetting to me is that you have been an intelligent poster in the past, and as soon as COMIDA and the Mall come into conversation together, you act as thought 1+8 Million COMIDA dollars = 0.
Get used to it. The more control they lose, the more accountable they will ALL be for their actions and the more public their dirty dealings will become.
If that upsets you, build a house in the woods and don’t hook up the electric. It’s gonna get messy in Monroe County real soon. Real messy.
I have been to several other malls that have similar policies in place, namely Galleria Mall in Buffalo and the argument that store owners will be negatively impacted is invalid. The stores in the mall are busier than ever and it is a family-friendly environment.
This is much the same argument many bars and restaurants used regarding the smoking ban. Can anyone name one that closed as a result?
At the age of 18 you can enlist in the armed forces and go to serve or die in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Only in Greece does John Auberger consider you a child and a menace.
Perhaps this should be the new recruitement philosophy of the Bush Administration?
Perhaps if those individuals enlisted in the Armed Forces or joined the Peace Corps or one of many other worthwhile opportunities to give back they wouldn’t find themselves at the mall, doing nothing, or worse. Da’marri Shaw and Brent Coley were a couple of “good boys” just hanging out with friends too, but they’re just as dead aren’t they?
Spoken like a true rethuglican whtwtrdood. You’ve got the party line down pat!
Gee - if you can get an abortion by yourself at 12, you should be able to go to the mall, or drink, or own a gun, or join the military……..
What the heck are you talking about and how is this pertinent to this conversation?
Here ya go Paige -
http://rochesterturning.com/2008/02/23/more-dc-storychat-nonsense/
And this has absolutely nothing to do with your “points” regarding the Greece Mall curfew…
What about college students? I know SUNY Brockport students probably head to Greece to do their shopping and I’m sure others from the Rochester area head there as well. When I was 18, I was a freshman in college. And I went to malls frequently, whether it was to go to Steve and Barry’s or to buy video games, etc.
So what are they trying to say? If you’re a college student and want to go to the mall, call your parents?
By the way, I drive by the Walden Galleria every weekend. The Galleria has a different policy. Their policy isn’t 19 (It’s under 18 I believe). And, I have been to the Galleria before and after this policy. They often bust 11 or 12 year olds who are running around the mall acting half their age. But other than that, as long as you’re behaving, they don’t bother you.
I’d be willing to bet you will see the exact same thing occur in Greece. Officials have made a blanket statement to give everyone notice and over time selective enforcement will be used to keep out the few it was directed towards in the first place. Give it six months and then go to the mall to see how many College Freshman from Brockport State or Roberts Wesleyan are being denied entry to the mall.
As far as the “Rethuglican” post, I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Please, enlighten me.
“selective enforcement will be used”
A very reckless course to start, IMO. It often leads to -isms like sexism, racism and elite-ism.
18-year old young women aren’t a problem, so we’ll let them slide. 18-year olds dressed in expensive clothes aren’t a problem, so we’ll let THEM slide.
18-year old ‘minority-types’ ARE a problem, so we’ll shut the doors. See how it works?
If a rule - or law - is important enough to be enacted, then it’s important enough to be followed to the letter for everyone… not just ’selected’ people using ’selective’ standards.
I’ve never had much of a problem shopping around teenagers; I’ve had PLENTY of problems shopping around parent-accompanied youngsters allowed to run wild.
How about selective as in, if an unaccompanied teen/teens is/are causing a problem(s), they are dealt with. Geez.
Don’t worry about the “Maggie Mall”…no one can get in our out and few travel to Greece anymore since the entire commerce section of the town is nothing but orange barrels and cones.
Auberger will be kicking himself in the ass in a few months when the old sales tax revenues are down. But heck, it’s only COMIDA money, right? And Maggie will intercept that sales tax revenue regardless, so the Greece taxpayers can eat the bill.
Do you honestly think they care? Do you honestly think they think? Do you - honestly?
Here’s something, Auberger feigns disgust at people who break the law at the mall.
Yet, he knowingly breaks the law when he enlists a select few “friendly” clergy to say prayers at his board meetings and he doesn’t flich.
What a hypocript.
My biggest problem with the curfew is the age limit. The last time I checked, 18 is the legal age of being considered an adult in our society. I don’t mean that a person instantly becomes mature and rational on that birthday, but we do become legally accountable for our own actions. Our laws, which “We, the people” have made, determine when we are no longer “minors”. Therefore, I find that excluding people aged 18 from the mall is a violation of their _civil rights_, which “We, the people” should be defending.
Allowing only military members aged 18 is a slap in the face to any law-abiding non-military member of society. A student or working 18 year-old is no less a person than an individual being trained to protect this country, our people, and the _rights_ which we have as Americans!
There are other ways of policing this growing concern. Increased security and monitoring might be effective in this situation. Having the right to disperse large groups of _kids_ who travel in “flocks” has always been a mall security prerogative.
I think “Paige” has the right idea. I also think that “Proud Liberal” brings up a good point that can easily become a slippery slope, as well as a series of discrimination lawsuits down the line. (How profitable will it be for the mall to pay lawyers to defend against those??) It really doesn’t matter what town, city, village or suburb something like this occurs. If it happens in the U.S.A., it should matter to all our citizens.
There are two problems with the argument that the mall is violating people’s civil rights:
1) The status of malls as a public forum is debatable The supreme court pretty much left it up to the states - and NY hasn’t come out strong on the side of the people…
2) Young people are not a protected class.
So legally, it seems to me that the Mall is on firm ground.
I still think it stinks to have a powerful, politically connected corporation saying essentially “some kids behave badly, therefore we are going to assume that all kids behave badly.” Seems the essence of discrimination: assigning attributes of a class to individuals.
I am an 18 year old freshmen from SUNY Brockport. I took the campus bus to the mall to do some Christmas shopping and was outraged when I was kicked out at four. I am a legal adult, I live on my own, I voted in the recent presidential election and I am not allowed to shop after four. I had to wait by the doors for the bus to come back. Outrage doesn’t even describe it.