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	<title>Comments on: David Cay Johnston on Bill Moyers -</title>
	<atom:link href="http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnston-bill-moyers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnston-bill-moyers/</link>
	<description>turning the tide upstate</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: rochesterturning.com: turning the tide upstate</title>
		<link>http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnston-bill-moyers/#comment-185031</link>
		<dc:creator>rochesterturning.com: turning the tide upstate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnson-on-bill-moyers/#comment-185031</guid>
		<description>[...] want to read (or reread) or watch David Cay [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] want to read (or reread) or watch David Cay [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rochesterturning.com: turning the tide upstate</title>
		<link>http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnston-bill-moyers/#comment-123672</link>
		<dc:creator>rochesterturning.com: turning the tide upstate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnson-on-bill-moyers/#comment-123672</guid>
		<description>[...] who are in touch with the rest of us, plus have an plan to change the flow of money&#8211; currently flowing from us to the wealthy and corporations&#8211; will do [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] who are in touch with the rest of us, plus have an plan to change the flow of money&#8211; currently flowing from us to the wealthy and corporations&#8211; will do [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rochesterturning.com: turning the tide upstate</title>
		<link>http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnston-bill-moyers/#comment-117642</link>
		<dc:creator>rochesterturning.com: turning the tide upstate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnson-on-bill-moyers/#comment-117642</guid>
		<description>[...] you missed David Cay Johnston discussing his book Free Lunch and other topics on Bill Moyers, at the UNITE hall, in the City News, here is your chance to see him at the downtown library. Date: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you missed David Cay Johnston discussing his book Free Lunch and other topics on Bill Moyers, at the UNITE hall, in the City News, here is your chance to see him at the downtown library. Date: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: stlo7</title>
		<link>http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnston-bill-moyers/#comment-104703</link>
		<dc:creator>stlo7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnson-on-bill-moyers/#comment-104703</guid>
		<description>Thanks Rotten.

I'll check it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Rotten.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll check it out.</p>
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		<title>By: Rottenchester</title>
		<link>http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnston-bill-moyers/#comment-104691</link>
		<dc:creator>Rottenchester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnson-on-bill-moyers/#comment-104691</guid>
		<description>The Moyers interview was pretty good - one local tie-in that wasn't mentioned in his discussion of Cabela's was that Gander Mountain, a direct competitor, refuses to take COMIDA-type subsidies, on principle.  Somehow, Gander Mtn still comes to town and makes money.    He mentions it in his Fresh Air interview:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17808622</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Moyers interview was pretty good - one local tie-in that wasn&#8217;t mentioned in his discussion of Cabela&#8217;s was that Gander Mountain, a direct competitor, refuses to take COMIDA-type subsidies, on principle.  Somehow, Gander Mtn still comes to town and makes money.    He mentions it in his Fresh Air interview:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17808622" rel="nofollow">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17808622</a></p>
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		<title>By: davesnyd</title>
		<link>http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnston-bill-moyers/#comment-104677</link>
		<dc:creator>davesnyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnson-on-bill-moyers/#comment-104677</guid>
		<description>Yes, COMIDA is, in many ways, broken. 

Yes, COMIDA wastes a lot of money that ought to be better spent.

If anything, this is the kind of case that shows what COMIDA &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; do if it were being run honestly and correctly.

We ought to tally up the money that COMIDA allocates-- good and bad. My guess is that we'd find that the appropriate allocations are at best 25% and maybe only 10% of the total.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, COMIDA is, in many ways, broken. </p>
<p>Yes, COMIDA wastes a lot of money that ought to be better spent.</p>
<p>If anything, this is the kind of case that shows what COMIDA <i>could</i> do if it were being run honestly and correctly.</p>
<p>We ought to tally up the money that COMIDA allocates&#8211; good and bad. My guess is that we&#8217;d find that the appropriate allocations are at best 25% and maybe only 10% of the total.</p>
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		<title>By: stlo7</title>
		<link>http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnston-bill-moyers/#comment-104600</link>
		<dc:creator>stlo7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 02:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnson-on-bill-moyers/#comment-104600</guid>
		<description>I'm not arguing with the potential value of COMDIA and yes encouragement of technical jobs is a good thing. 

I'll look further at the math as I may have read the original release too too fast. 

The press release discusses the cost of the project. @ 396K.  Typically that is the amount of benefit to the company.  I missed the "up to " part in the D&#038;C.

But - one point does not a trend make and a stopped watch is correct twice a day and COMIDA may have done with this project but...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not arguing with the potential value of COMDIA and yes encouragement of technical jobs is a good thing. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll look further at the math as I may have read the original release too too fast. </p>
<p>The press release discusses the cost of the project. @ 396K.  Typically that is the amount of benefit to the company.  I missed the &#8220;up to &#8221; part in the D&#038;C.</p>
<p>But - one point does not a trend make and a stopped watch is correct twice a day and COMIDA may have done with this project but&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: davesnyd</title>
		<link>http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnston-bill-moyers/#comment-104583</link>
		<dc:creator>davesnyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 00:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnson-on-bill-moyers/#comment-104583</guid>
		<description>So here is their &lt;a href="http://www.inductionatmospheres.com/faqs.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;website&lt;/a&gt;.

In short, they are using RF ("Radio Frequency": electromagnetic waves roughly like the ones that carry your radio or TV signal) to heat stuff; in their case, I think they're doing welding inside a vacuum chamber. That "stuff" has to be conductive-- it sounds like they are heating metals.

This *is* the kind of company we need to encourage to be and stay in our area. Good, technical, factory, and R&#38;D jobs that support the sale of products, probably all over the world.

Again, credit where credit is due-- this is a good act by COMIDA (I'll point out that if you look for my other comments about COMIDA, they are pretty negative).

Also, I think your math is wrong. The article said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;sales tax breaks on $396,500 that Induction Atmospheres LLC plans to spend&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Unless I'm reading it wrong, it amounts to giving the company about $32K to keep 15 jobs in the area. 

Let's guess these are good paying jobs. So a rough estimate might be that the $32K in sales tax waivers might generate:

 - $750K - $1M in wages
 - $40K - $80K in sales tax
 - $10k - $20K in county property taxes
 - $30K - $50K in other property (i.e., school) taxes

&lt;i&gt;per year&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So here is their <a href="http://www.inductionatmospheres.com/faqs.html" rel="nofollow">website</a>.</p>
<p>In short, they are using RF (&#8221;Radio Frequency&#8221;: electromagnetic waves roughly like the ones that carry your radio or TV signal) to heat stuff; in their case, I think they&#8217;re doing welding inside a vacuum chamber. That &#8220;stuff&#8221; has to be conductive&#8211; it sounds like they are heating metals.</p>
<p>This *is* the kind of company we need to encourage to be and stay in our area. Good, technical, factory, and R&amp;D jobs that support the sale of products, probably all over the world.</p>
<p>Again, credit where credit is due&#8211; this is a good act by COMIDA (I&#8217;ll point out that if you look for my other comments about COMIDA, they are pretty negative).</p>
<p>Also, I think your math is wrong. The article said:</p>
<blockquote><p>sales tax breaks on $396,500 that Induction Atmospheres LLC plans to spend</p></blockquote>
<p>Unless I&#8217;m reading it wrong, it amounts to giving the company about $32K to keep 15 jobs in the area. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s guess these are good paying jobs. So a rough estimate might be that the $32K in sales tax waivers might generate:</p>
<p> - $750K - $1M in wages<br />
 - $40K - $80K in sales tax<br />
 - $10k - $20K in county property taxes<br />
 - $30K - $50K in other property (i.e., school) taxes</p>
<p><i>per year</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: stlo7</title>
		<link>http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnston-bill-moyers/#comment-104564</link>
		<dc:creator>stlo7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnson-on-bill-moyers/#comment-104564</guid>
		<description>Right - credit due.  I really don't know anything about this company other than the press release.   I thought they were a HVAC provider or something. So if they work they do is here then...

It is on my list to look at the company - anyone else feel free to pipe in. 

There are 15 FTEs in company.  Is credit due to keeping all these people here?   No, they are adding 2 jobs.  Taking  ~400K in sales tax breaks creating 2 FTEs.

Do the math - 200K per job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right - credit due.  I really don&#8217;t know anything about this company other than the press release.   I thought they were a HVAC provider or something. So if they work they do is here then&#8230;</p>
<p>It is on my list to look at the company - anyone else feel free to pipe in. </p>
<p>There are 15 FTEs in company.  Is credit due to keeping all these people here?   No, they are adding 2 jobs.  Taking  ~400K in sales tax breaks creating 2 FTEs.</p>
<p>Do the math - 200K per job.</p>
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		<title>By: davesnyd</title>
		<link>http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnston-bill-moyers/#comment-104561</link>
		<dc:creator>davesnyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnson-on-bill-moyers/#comment-104561</guid>
		<description>So let's at least give credit for doing things that provide the benefit for which they are intended. From &lt;a href="http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008801160346" rel="nofollow"&gt;Wednesday's D&#38;C&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The County of Monroe Industrial Development Agency on Tuesday approved sales tax breaks on $396,500 that Induction Atmospheres LLC plans to spend on renovating and equipping a 37,000-square-foot building in Rochester Technology Park in Gates. The company currently operates in 16,000 square feet at the technology park.

The industrial heating system company employs the equivalent of 15 full-time workers and plans to add two more, according to COMIDA.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is one of the COMIDA projects that sounds beneficial to the community: helping to keep a company in town that would otherwise move.

Hotels? Schools? Not likely to go anywhere. I'm not sure I see the economic benefit in those projects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So let&#8217;s at least give credit for doing things that provide the benefit for which they are intended. From <a href="http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008801160346" rel="nofollow">Wednesday&#8217;s D&amp;C</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>The County of Monroe Industrial Development Agency on Tuesday approved sales tax breaks on $396,500 that Induction Atmospheres LLC plans to spend on renovating and equipping a 37,000-square-foot building in Rochester Technology Park in Gates. The company currently operates in 16,000 square feet at the technology park.</p>
<p>The industrial heating system company employs the equivalent of 15 full-time workers and plans to add two more, according to COMIDA.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is one of the COMIDA projects that sounds beneficial to the community: helping to keep a company in town that would otherwise move.</p>
<p>Hotels? Schools? Not likely to go anywhere. I&#8217;m not sure I see the economic benefit in those projects.</p>
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		<title>By: realgreecer</title>
		<link>http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnston-bill-moyers/#comment-104559</link>
		<dc:creator>realgreecer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rochesterturning.com/2008/01/19/david-cay-johnson-on-bill-moyers/#comment-104559</guid>
		<description>I saw this interview it was excellent. Johnson is an untapped and valuable resource for our area. We should get him to speak more or feature him as a commentator in our area. If not on WGOP how about on wxxi or wroc am</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw this interview it was excellent. Johnson is an untapped and valuable resource for our area. We should get him to speak more or feature him as a commentator in our area. If not on WGOP how about on wxxi or wroc am</p>
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