Ren Square-City gives us the skinny
In a very thorough interview with Mark Ballerstein, Project Director- Jeremy Moule tracks down just what’s happening with this, much maligned undertaking:
Renaissance Square, one of the biggest public-works projects in Monroe County history, is nearing a kickoff. County officials hope they’ll be able to start demolishing buildings on the site this fall. And they’ll take that step even though the public doesn’t have answers to some key questions. Among them: how much construction costs on the $230 million project have increased.
County officials have said that they have enough money to build the bus station and the Monroe Community College facility. All they need now is money for Ren Square’s two theaters. They’ve hired a fundraiser - Brakeley Brisco, a national firm whose clients have included the Smithsonian Institution, the Boston Symphony, Carnegie Hall, and, in Rochester, the George Eastman House - and they’ve started planning a funds drive. But officials aren’t saying what the goal is, or how much has been raised.
This post by btp would lead us to believe that the performing arts center is a dead issue. Not so, says Ballerstein (and I love this quote-emphasis mine):
It’s one project. It’s one design. We’re not planning on not building the theater.
(Yeah, that’s why these guys get paid the big bucks-didn’t their grammar instructors ever teach them about double negatives?)
Check out the whole article and see what you think. There’s an artist’s rendition of what it should look like. I should hold my opinion till you check it out, but man, I think it’s u-gly. No wonder it was never put to a vote.
I’m also, just a little curious about the Main and Clinton Development Corp which is overseeing the project, but more on that later as everything is illuminated. ( nudge, nudge, wink, wink, know what I mean? know what I mean? say no more.)
Related posts:
Will Maggie push for this sans the two theaters? “I’ll bet she does, I’ll bet she does.”
The story on the theatres is the same as it’s always been: remarkably ambiguous. It’s almost Buddhist in conception, in that if you believe that there will be a theatre, then for you, there will be a theatre.
However, most of what I’ve read on the subject, most of what City has been told, is that MCC wouldn’t really be interested without at least some small theatres. That’s part of the point for them: get the performing arts kids out of the Brighton campus and put them downtown.
So, do they mean *no* theatres, or do they mean that there won’t be the bigger theatres?
“Aye? Wink’s as good as a nod to a blind bat.”
Jeremy Moule is a good journalist. They are hard to come by these days.
Amen to that, Andrea. He’s my “Main Man” over at City.
A la Wayne and Garth-”I’m not worthy, I’m not worthy”
Hey, Jeremy-if you’re reading this, how about I interview YOU sometime?
Building a bus terminal and urban junior college campus in the heart of downtown Rochester is not economic development….it’s “economic destructionâ€ÂÂ! …. destroying the economic potential of a valuable piece of property at the corner of Main and Clinton. Why would a community spend $230 +++ million in creating a super concentration of poor people…people with very little disposable income…and placing them in the economic center of downtown Rochester? It’s insane!
I think its time now for the democrats and the community to support Andrew Stainton…in his efforts to unseat Maggie Brooks. Our region cannot afford another four years of Maggie Brooks. …I am still OUTRAGED that the Democrats didn’t obtain a candidate to run against Ms. Brooks. And OUTRAGED that the media and prominent community leaders have allowed for this boondoggle to progress this far.
rocrochester, I’m sure you didn’t mean that to come out nearly as prejudiced as it sounds.
But as for the “poor people,” who don’t own cars, it’s not like those folks aren’t already down there. There are hundreds of people waiting for busses downtown, freezing their butts off in the winter. Some of those “poor people” might simply choose to use public transportation, which is a staple of the Stainton platform to which you apparently subscribe.
If anything, building a bus garage downtown is a remarkably charitable idea for Rochester, a city which otherwise does not show much respect for anyone who doesn’t drive, at least in the city planning.
As for the “urban junior college,” not everyone who goes to MCC is “ghetto” as your comment implies, nor are they even from the city. I attended MCC back in the day, and I graduated from Sodus. Not exactly a suburb, even. Lots of people go to MCC because they’re saving their dough for the last two years of college and don’t want to end up heaped in debt for two years of requirements that have nothing to do with their majors. Musicians go to MCC because it’s cheap and possesses an excellent music department.
My primary concern for this whole enterprise is cost. Having a bus garage is the least our city can do to encourage ridership and help the environment by getting a few cars off the street.
DragonFlyEye….
Stating the word “poor†is not a prejudicial statement…its just a statement of “economic factâ€ÂÂ. In general …poor people with very limited disposable income will not create an economic renaissance in downtown Rochester. That stated….it does not mean that I do not support programs/initiatives to assist the poor. I would strongly support a heated transit/bus transfer facility(s) along the perimeter of downtown…not in the center where costs are extremely high, logistics are problematic and time consuming for bus patrons. Most people who wait for buses in the downtown core don’t want to be downtown…they are there because that is the designated point to transfer to another bus. Transfer points in the middle of downtown doesn’t benefit the poor….nor benefit downtown merchants. There are very few …if any central bus terminal facilities in America that are located in the “center†of downtown. It just doesn’t make any economic or logistic sense.
Regarding a urban downtown junior college campus…the primary issue again is the level of poor people…people of low disposable income…who utilize the downtown campus. These poor people are not bad people. They are people of good character who are improving themselves…creating valuable skills…so that in the near future they will no longer be poor. BUT….while they utilize MCC…they are poor and have very limited disposable income. Then why build a very expensive palace and concentrate them in the middle of downtown Rochester where development costs are extremely high and the costs for parking and housing are extremely high? It makes no economic or logistical sense!
Again….to spend $230 million to further concentrate high levels of people of very limited disposable income into the core of downtown Rochester is economic insanity. Another major step in killing the prospects of maintaining downtown as the regional center of commerce and entertainment. Poverty will continue to increase in our region if our community continues to make extremely poor and expensive mistakes.
I think a lot of what you have to say makes a lot of sense. Having the bus garage downtown is not optimal, certainly: I always supported the idea of merging the bus depot with the train depot to get the best bang for the buck. Plus it has the bonus of being at least a little bit outside downtown, where as you say, the costs would be lower and not as likely to be high-value property in the first place.
For the sake of devil’s advocacy, though, I would submit that SOMEONE should be using downtown, and right now, they’re not. The only other plan ever put on the table was a freakin’ casino, which I’d fight to my last freakin’ breath.
I don’t have any numbers in front of me, but I somehow doubt your assertion that the majority of people at Daemon City are economically challenged. For one, there’s a ton of night classes there that you can’t do at Brighton campus. But then, what constitutes economic disadvantage is itself subject to interpretation.
Also, the reason for expanding the Daemon City campus is not to increase the number of poor people, but rather to broaden the profile of the city campus. It’s advantageous to MCC to have the expansion, but of course, all this is moot if the program overall does not benefit the city, and clearly there are reasons to suspect it will not.
$230 million reasons, to be exact.
Unfortunately, DFE, it would appear that $230 reasons are NOT exact. I am SO with you on the casino thing! They’d have to build it over my cold, dead body or pry it out of my cold, dead hand or something.
I’m telling you, they’re going to go ahead with the demolition regardless of the status of the arts center or the rest of the project (the Mortimer St. garage is down already)
I’m guessing this is how they’re going to force the issue. A six acre demolition. Then they’re going to say “look, we HAVE to build it now! There’s six acres of vacant land in the middle of downtown!”
Watch for threats that Monroe County is going to back out and dump the vacant site on the City, too, that wouldn’t surprise me either.
As a reminder to all…………..there IS an alternative to Maggie. Myself & the Working Families Party have endorsed Patrick Christopher. UAW Local 1097 employee, member of the Rochester Labor Council, very pro labor, and very pro Rochester.
ALSO………anything that gets built downtown needs to be built with our own labor (building trades!!!) That is what we should be advocating for also!! We make it here & we spend it here!!!
As a reminder, there is another candidate running against Maggie……Patrick Christopher from UAW Local 1097. Pat is also a member of the Rochester Labor Council.
Union member, pro labor, pro Rochester and endorsed by Working Families Party and UAW Region 9. Pat is actively raising money, campaigning, and has much help by the way of Paul Haney.
AND…….whatever is going to be built downtown should be built be Rochester labor (Building Trades). We make it here……we spend it here…….we ALL benefit!!!
Look for Patrick Christopher in the Labor Day Parade marching with myself and the UAW Local 1097. He will also be at the post-parade picnic at Cobbs Hill park.
One of the misconceptions regarding Renaissance Square is that MCC needs to “expand†in downtown Rochester. INCORRECT. The new RenSquare MCC campus will be exactly the same size as the current Damon Center at Sibleys! …same number of students, very similar programs and the same size of footprint (square footage). The current Damon Center has been a disappointment for MCC. It never realized its goals in attracting more programs and students. Students would rather go to the Main Campus…an outstanding facility. This then begs the question….why build a brand new facility …replicating an exciting facility that is located just 300 feet to the east? …at a cost of over $60 million!
…regarding the level of poor students attending Damon. While I don’t have specific facts…mostly conjecture. But I do know that the Damon Center has been a economic disaster for the Sibley’s building and downtown Rochester. This facility has NOT generated any new commerce/economic activity since its been at Sibleys…. actually, it chased away several national retail tenants (that were recruited for the new Damon Center about 10 years ago)…and just about every other service or fast food businesses nearby or in the Sibely’s food court. Even a number of commercial office tenants have vacated Sibely’s since the inception of the Damon Center.
There is much positive buzz about a new MCC downtown campus…but it is based on bad information and bad analysis. There is no economic benefit for a junior college campus in downtown Rochester. It will NOT benefit the students, the community or nearby commercial activity. As I had stated before…Ren Square is an economic “disasterâ€ÂÂ…not a economic “development†project!
I like the WFP. I especially like the fact that the eyes of those who have the most to lose, the workers, are watching every move Maggie & Co. make. I think Patrick Christopher and the Working Families Party deserves alot of credit for taking on the task of representing the community and giving the voters in Monroe County a CHOICE. Does he have a website?
[...] That headline might be worthy of something regarding REN Square.ÂÂ I mean that project has been going on for what 4 or 5 years at least?ÂÂ It is run outside government oversight by an LDC.ÂÂ I mean they haven’t even agreed on the final plan and ground breaking is scheduled w/in the year. [...]
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