Comments on: Wind Turbines and Green Collar Jobs http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/ turning the tide upstate Thu, 08 Jan 2009 02:25:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: rochesterturning.com: turning the tide upstate http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-54123 rochesterturning.com: turning the tide upstate Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:31:17 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-54123 [...] Speaking of Wind Power, the Town of Gorham is probably going to ban the useful sort of wind turbines through zoning regulations. [...] [...] Speaking of Wind Power, the Town of Gorham is probably going to ban the useful sort of wind turbines through zoning regulations. [...]

]]> By: rochesterturning.com: turning the tide upstate http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-54021 rochesterturning.com: turning the tide upstate Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:44:03 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-54021 [...] was inspired by Sahar’s Green Post to do this one, that I’ve been thinking about ever since I read about it in the Summer [...] [...] was inspired by Sahar’s Green Post to do this one, that I’ve been thinking about ever since I read about it in the Summer [...]

]]> By: robinia http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-54016 robinia Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:52:04 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-54016 Nice to see so many who agree with me that wind farms can be an elegant and attractive addition to the rural landscape-- more like silos than like cell towers. I've been on a tour of the Maple Ridge facility, and, while the turbines are, indeed, huge, they are not loud at ALL. In fact, you can barely hear them at all while standing right under them. Also, I understand the "they kill birds" thing to be untrue-- of course, all towers (and, actually, some patio doors) will kill an occassional bird, the wind turbines do not have a very significant effect. Domestic felines allowed outside, on the other hand, make a real dent in bird populations. So, keep your cat indoors, turn down the thermostat a notch, and support green energy development in upstate. The extra cash from a wind farm may well help an ordinary farmer keep some land in production that would otherwise sprout suburban housing, making global warming just that much worse. Nice to see so many who agree with me that wind farms can be an elegant and attractive addition to the rural landscape– more like silos than like cell towers.

I’ve been on a tour of the Maple Ridge facility, and, while the turbines are, indeed, huge, they are not loud at ALL. In fact, you can barely hear them at all while standing right under them. Also, I understand the “they kill birds” thing to be untrue– of course, all towers (and, actually, some patio doors) will kill an occassional bird, the wind turbines do not have a very significant effect. Domestic felines allowed outside, on the other hand, make a real dent in bird populations.

So, keep your cat indoors, turn down the thermostat a notch, and support green energy development in upstate. The extra cash from a wind farm may well help an ordinary farmer keep some land in production that would otherwise sprout suburban housing, making global warming just that much worse.

]]> By: itchy http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-54006 itchy Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:25:12 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-54006 Check out this picture of a blade on the ground for a sense of the size of these things: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jayros/269574855/ Check out this picture of a blade on the ground for a sense of the size of these things:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jayros/269574855/

]]> By: itchy http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-54005 itchy Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:22:55 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-54005 Part of the problem is that the wind doesn't blow as much close to the ground. You need a long, strong breeze. That means a higher tower. Also the power increases as a funtion of the area (the circle) swept by the rotor. So while a 40 meter blade can generate 500 kW, an 80 meter blade can generate 2,500 kW.... Some people think that one big slow-turning blade is less intrusive than many small fast-turning blades, too. There are also economies of scale - fewer foundations to build, fewer access roads, etc. Part of the problem is that the wind doesn’t blow as much close to the ground. You need a long, strong breeze. That means a higher tower.

Also the power increases as a funtion of the area (the circle) swept by the rotor. So while a 40 meter blade can generate 500 kW, an 80 meter blade can generate 2,500 kW….

Some people think that one big slow-turning blade is less intrusive than many small fast-turning blades, too.

There are also economies of scale - fewer foundations to build, fewer access roads, etc.

]]> By: itchy http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53994 itchy Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:31:54 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53994 I agree. I think they're beautiful. It's entirely subjective, of course. I agree. I think they’re beautiful. It’s entirely subjective, of course.

]]> By: ladkiddo http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53987 ladkiddo Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:24:14 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53987 Traveling East on the thruway, looking south past Syracuse there are massive Wind Turbines on the hill south of Rte 20. They're beautiful and I AM a rural land owner and I would LOVE to have Turbines in my back yard. I recommend the book "Adirondack Green" for any one who would like to have a different perspective on windmills. I think wind power is the way to go. Traveling East on the thruway, looking south past Syracuse there are massive Wind Turbines on the hill south of Rte 20. They’re beautiful and I AM a rural land owner and I would LOVE to have Turbines in my back yard. I recommend the book “Adirondack Green” for any one who would like to have a different perspective on windmills. I think wind power is the way to go.

]]> By: Sahar Massachi http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53984 Sahar Massachi Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:19:52 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53984 They are very elegant. They are very elegant.

]]> By: Historical Pessimist http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53983 Historical Pessimist Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:18:44 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53983 I've seen the ones in Wethersfield up close, but they are small, compared to what is being planned. In principle, I think wind turbines are a wonderful idea, but the way they are being proposed right now is troubling. A large company comes to a deal with a landowner, whose neighbors are out of luck. But I think what bothers people even more is that the plans all call for the power to be sucked away (most likely "downstate," which makes it a hard sell to many rural folks, who mistakenly believe their tax dollars support downstate) with few benefits to the host community. If these turbines generated local power instead, I think we'd be seeing an entirely different dynamic. I’ve seen the ones in Wethersfield up close, but they are small, compared to what is being planned. In principle, I think wind turbines are a wonderful idea, but the way they are being proposed right now is troubling. A large company comes to a deal with a landowner, whose neighbors are out of luck. But I think what bothers people even more is that the plans all call for the power to be sucked away (most likely “downstate,” which makes it a hard sell to many rural folks, who mistakenly believe their tax dollars support downstate) with few benefits to the host community. If these turbines generated local power instead, I think we’d be seeing an entirely different dynamic.

]]> By: The Ghost of H.S.T. http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53980 The Ghost of H.S.T. Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:40:13 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53980 When I travel to Philly there is a ridgeline between Binghamton and Scranton with a dozen or so turbines. Its mesmerizing...hard to look away. When I travel to Philly there is a ridgeline between Binghamton and Scranton with a dozen or so turbines. Its mesmerizing…hard to look away.

]]> By: zabriskie http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53974 zabriskie Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:28:08 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53974 Is it just me, or does anyone else think wind turbines look cool... seriously, it looks like something out of a star trek movie or something... It's certainly no more of an eye sore than powerlines and we're all used to that Is it just me, or does anyone else think wind turbines look cool… seriously, it looks like something out of a star trek movie or something… It’s certainly no more of an eye sore than powerlines and we’re all used to that

]]> By: dj_paige http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53970 dj_paige Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:32:39 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53970 Thanks for explaining that, but once again I ask, why does it have to be ALL or NOTHING? Aren't there alternative wind turbine possibilities that don't require really big turbines and still are cost effective? Couldn't lots of small turbines (which will obviously cost less money to build) provide lots of energy, just not as much as lots of huge turbines would provide, without many of the side effects? Perhaps that technology doesn't exist today ... or perhaps the legal rationale for shifting to that technology doesn't exist today. I'm just trying to understand the issues. Thanks for explaining that, but once again I ask, why does it have to be ALL or NOTHING?

Aren’t there alternative wind turbine possibilities that don’t require really big turbines and still are cost effective? Couldn’t lots of small turbines (which will obviously cost less money to build) provide lots of energy, just not as much as lots of huge turbines would provide, without many of the side effects? Perhaps that technology doesn’t exist today … or perhaps the legal rationale for shifting to that technology doesn’t exist today.

I’m just trying to understand the issues.

]]> By: The Ghost of H.S.T. http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53969 The Ghost of H.S.T. Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:28:19 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53969 Brighton recently had the opportunity to address green options for a new community project. Until the time of the announcement of the Green Task Force for the ideas were not even considered, pushed aside as idle chit chat. Upon the announcement of The Task Force, there was a "newly found" interest by officials. Sadly the ideas were squashed because they "cost too much." The Property Revaluation flyer I received from the Town did, however, say it was printed on recycled paper. Maybe this is the extent of the powers of The Force. The scales seem to be leaning to the gimmick side. Brighton recently had the opportunity to address green options for a new community project. Until the time of the announcement of the Green Task Force for the ideas were not even considered, pushed aside as idle chit chat. Upon the announcement of The Task Force, there was a “newly found” interest by officials. Sadly the ideas were squashed because they “cost too much.”

The Property Revaluation flyer I received from the Town did, however, say it was printed on recycled paper. Maybe this is the extent of the powers of The Force. The scales seem to be leaning to the gimmick side.

]]> By: Itchy http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53960 Itchy Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:25:15 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53960 The problem is the economics of it: if you're trying to make money, then it makes sense to build really big turbines. The problem is the economics of it: if you’re trying to make money, then it makes sense to build really big turbines.

]]> By: dj_paige http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53959 dj_paige Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:50:11 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/08/13/wind-turbines-and-green-collar-jobs/#comment-53959 Reading this, I have to wonder how we ever got into this "All or Nothing" state of mind that exists in so many areas of political discourse. We can put restrictions on where the turbines go, or how large they could be, or how loud they could be. I'm sure there are enough remote areas of NYS where turbines could still be placed and the noise wouldn't bother anyone, nor would the flickering shadows bother anyone. Or you could limit the size of the turbines in other areas. Seems to me there is still great value in a device that powers 600 homes for virtually no cost from 100% renewable energy. I don't know what to do about the fact that turbines kill birds. Reading this, I have to wonder how we ever got into this “All or Nothing” state of mind that exists in so many areas of political discourse.

We can put restrictions on where the turbines go, or how large they could be, or how loud they could be. I’m sure there are enough remote areas of NYS where turbines could still be placed and the noise wouldn’t bother anyone, nor would the flickering shadows bother anyone. Or you could limit the size of the turbines in other areas. Seems to me there is still great value in a device that powers 600 homes for virtually no cost from 100% renewable energy. I don’t know what to do about the fact that turbines kill birds.

]]>