Comments on: Analysis of the Massa-Nachbar race http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/ turning the tide upstate Wed, 08 Oct 2008 06:33:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: rochesterturning.com: turning the tide upstate http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40376 rochesterturning.com: turning the tide upstate Sun, 20 May 2007 20:33:44 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40376 [...] I wrote a bit of analysis about the Democratic primary between David Nachbar and Eric Massa. There were a number of [...] [...] I wrote a bit of analysis about the Democratic primary between David Nachbar and Eric Massa. There were a number of [...]

]]> By: stlo7 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40339 stlo7 Sun, 20 May 2007 14:00:49 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40339 Regarding local committees and all the posits of pressure from MCDC to stay neutral. I don't think it is censorship. That said - If you are not a member of your local committee then don't complain about it - join it. If the posits are true - I have no first hand knowledge so I'm not agreeing or disagreeing - then the way to avoid this is for the committees to review bylaws and vote for a designation. I can't imagine that if several towns voted to designate or otherwise support MCDC going the other way. Frankly the 29th is in a small portion of Monroe County so Pittsford, Brighton, Henrietta (who am I forgetting?) So they should drive the decision. Regarding local committees and all the posits of pressure from MCDC to stay neutral. I don’t think it is censorship.

That said - If you are not a member of your local committee then don’t complain about it - join it. If the posits are true - I have no first hand knowledge so I’m not agreeing or disagreeing - then the way to avoid this is for the committees to review bylaws and vote for a designation.

I can’t imagine that if several towns voted to designate or otherwise support MCDC going the other way. Frankly the 29th is in a small portion of Monroe County so Pittsford, Brighton, Henrietta (who am I forgetting?) So they should drive the decision.

]]> By: Tom http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40324 Tom Sun, 20 May 2007 11:47:07 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40324 When there is talk about being told to remain neutral, it sounds like "being fair" unless you consider there may be local committees who already feel strongly about supporting Massa--but now feel as if they can't make that know. That's censorship. When there is talk about being told to remain neutral, it sounds like “being fair” unless you consider there may be local committees who already feel strongly about supporting Massa–but now feel as if they can’t make that know. That’s censorship.

]]> By: hsrstud http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40287 hsrstud Sun, 20 May 2007 00:50:38 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40287 As I recall, Morelle did the same thing for Lovely Warren in the D&C a few weeks ago, when she ran for the open city council seat. Responding to the first comment: I'm disappointed to hear that any of our town leaders would feel the need to be a "yes man/woman." Its one thing, if sometimes undertakes some action to hurt the party, or the party's designated candidate. Its another to surrender your better judgment, to appease those viewed as influential (i.e. brown nosing). If a town leader, and his or her committee, has reached a strong consensus on an issue or a candidate, they should feel empowered to exercise their democratic right to express their opinion. Especially, if there is such a strong consensus among multiple committees that bad things might be coming down the rode, if folks don't start speaking up and reveal their preferences. From my experience, not all town leaders tote whatever message is fed to them from above. Our town leader seems to think much more independently, while still working towards the party's best interests. On the other hand, spectators are often swayed quite easily by arguments from persuasive figureheads. Even if those arguments are not all that persuasive. How do other committee members feel? Are there other committee members who are able to think critically about what is going on? Or, are they ditto heads as well? It sounds like you don't have a close relationship with your town leader. Perhaps, you should speak with other committee members and bring forth a consensus statement among like minded individuals at your next meeting that you're worried about this particular aspect of your committee's leadership? It seems to me that politics is often a game between figureheads and numbers. When the numbers dwindle, the figurehead holds sway. When the numbers are strongly opposed and organized, the figurehead may start to listen (unless its our current President). As I recall, Morelle did the same thing for Lovely Warren in the D&C a few weeks ago, when she ran for the open city council seat.

Responding to the first comment:

I’m disappointed to hear that any of our town leaders would feel the need to be a “yes man/woman.” Its one thing, if sometimes undertakes some action to hurt the party, or the party’s designated candidate. Its another to surrender your better judgment, to appease those viewed as influential (i.e. brown nosing). If a town leader, and his or her committee, has reached a strong consensus on an issue or a candidate, they should feel empowered to exercise their democratic right to express their opinion. Especially, if there is such a strong consensus among multiple committees that bad things might be coming down the rode, if folks don’t start speaking up and reveal their preferences.

From my experience, not all town leaders tote whatever message is fed to them from above. Our town leader seems to think much more independently, while still working towards the party’s best interests. On the other hand, spectators are often swayed quite easily by arguments from persuasive figureheads. Even if those arguments are not all that persuasive.

How do other committee members feel? Are there other committee members who are able to think critically about what is going on? Or, are they ditto heads as well? It sounds like you don’t have a close relationship with your town leader. Perhaps, you should speak with other committee members and bring forth a consensus statement among like minded individuals at your next meeting that you’re worried about this particular aspect of your committee’s leadership? It seems to me that politics is often a game between figureheads and numbers. When the numbers dwindle, the figurehead holds sway. When the numbers are strongly opposed and organized, the figurehead may start to listen (unless its our current President).

]]> By: hsrstud http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40278 hsrstud Sun, 20 May 2007 00:18:00 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40278 Unfortunately, in my experience, if you go after Republican candidates in Republican strongholds, the way they (viciously) go after Democrats, the local newspapers and tv stations label the Democratic candidate a negative campaigner and that's enough to steer voters in these areas, in the opposite direction. It really frustrates me sometimes when these districts seemingly hold Democrats to a higher standard. If Massa had pulled anything like the crosshairs add on Kuhl, from my experience, the election would have been over within a day. I think Massa did a heck of a job, given the voter profile in the district. A 1% loss in his district is truly a great accomplishment. I think if he keeps plugging away, holding Kuhl accountable for his actions, and continues to campaign with integrity, he'll win! Unfortunately, in my experience, if you go after Republican candidates in Republican strongholds, the way they (viciously) go after Democrats, the local newspapers and tv stations label the Democratic candidate a negative campaigner and that’s enough to steer voters in these areas, in the opposite direction. It really frustrates me sometimes when these districts seemingly hold Democrats to a higher standard. If Massa had pulled anything like the crosshairs add on Kuhl, from my experience, the election would have been over within a day.

I think Massa did a heck of a job, given the voter profile in the district. A 1% loss in his district is truly a great accomplishment. I think if he keeps plugging away, holding Kuhl accountable for his actions, and continues to campaign with integrity, he’ll win!

]]> By: neweyes http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40260 neweyes Sat, 19 May 2007 20:24:28 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40260 So. "One source tells me that Joe Morrelle has instructed these town leaders to remain neutral." Let's see. That would be the same Joe Morelle who just last month, on the eve of the East Side Dems meeting to designate a candidate for City Council, East District, was known to be personally working the phones on behalf of Elaine Spaull, the insider candidate rumored to be personally recruited by the Mayor himself. Call me naive, but neutrality seems to be more a matter of convenience than principle. So. “One source tells me that Joe Morrelle has instructed these town leaders to remain neutral.” Let’s see. That would be the same Joe Morelle who just last month, on the eve of the East Side Dems meeting to designate a candidate for City Council, East District, was known to be personally working the phones on behalf of Elaine Spaull, the insider candidate rumored to be personally recruited by the Mayor himself. Call me naive, but neutrality seems to be more a matter of convenience than principle.

]]> By: Daedalus http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40246 Daedalus Sat, 19 May 2007 17:26:24 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40246 It can easily be argued that one of Massa's mistakes in the last election was his inability to strike Kuhl in the same manner that Kuhl was able to strike him. Concurrently, many might argue that this was biggest positive ni that he refused to make the race negative. With that being said, Massas needs to "strike first, strike hard, no mercy sir!" And to do so he needs to get his face out there as much as possible, he needs his managers to put him in front of as many people as possible as often as possible because meeting him truely is a transformational experience. Contrast his lively, energetic style with that of Dopey the Dwarf and he will win. This race is not about Louise Slaughter and making it about her takes away from her as well as Massa. Everyone needs to avoid it. It can easily be argued that one of Massa’s mistakes in the last election was his inability to strike Kuhl in the same manner that Kuhl was able to strike him. Concurrently, many might argue that this was biggest positive ni that he refused to make the race negative.

With that being said, Massas needs to “strike first, strike hard, no mercy sir!” And to do so he needs to get his face out there as much as possible, he needs his managers to put him in front of as many people as possible as often as possible because meeting him truely is a transformational experience. Contrast his lively, energetic style with that of Dopey the Dwarf and he will win.

This race is not about Louise Slaughter and making it about her takes away from her as well as Massa. Everyone needs to avoid it.

]]> By: The Fighting 29th http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40232 The Fighting 29th Sat, 19 May 2007 12:29:23 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40232 <strong>Slaughter and Nachbar...</strong> Exile of Rochesterturning reports on his conversations with regional Democratic leaders about the Nachbar candidacy. He believes that Louise Slaughter will not officially endorse Nachbar for the 2008 race, and that most of the town and county Democrati... Slaughter and Nachbar…

Exile of Rochesterturning reports on his conversations with regional Democratic leaders about the Nachbar candidacy. He believes that Louise Slaughter will not officially endorse Nachbar for the 2008 race, and that most of the town and county Democrati…

]]> By: Robert http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40231 Robert Sat, 19 May 2007 12:13:06 +0000 http://rochesterturning.com/2007/05/19/analysis-of-the-massa-nachbar-race/#comment-40231 As a member of my town's Democratic committee, I have to say that the experience is stiffling. There is no creativity and no thinking outside the box. When we meet to vote on "endorsing" candidates, our committee leader always speaks as if there is only one path to follow and that is usually followed by "Joe Morelle said....." Yes, there is an overwhelming idea that committee members at the local level are incapable of thinking and acting in their own best interests. Instead, pressure comes down from the top of the county party throught committee leaders about who we should support. It's been an eye opening experience for me. I'm not a radical by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel that is how I am viewed simply by stating the fact that other candidates exist and deserve our consideration. What is the purpose of local town committees if Joe Morelle is ordering them to stay neutral? And why do the town committees do what they are told? As a member of my town’s Democratic committee, I have to say that the experience is stiffling. There is no creativity and no thinking outside the box. When we meet to vote on “endorsing” candidates, our committee leader always speaks as if there is only one path to follow and that is usually followed by “Joe Morelle said…..”

Yes, there is an overwhelming idea that committee members at the local level are incapable of thinking and acting in their own best interests. Instead, pressure comes down from the top of the county party throught committee leaders about who we should support.

It’s been an eye opening experience for me. I’m not a radical by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel that is how I am viewed simply by stating the fact that other candidates exist and deserve our consideration.

What is the purpose of local town committees if Joe Morelle is ordering them to stay neutral? And why do the town committees do what they are told?

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