NY Museum of Transportation - a high falls candidate?
Roch-a-cha Rant has an interesting proposal for where to move the museum– from Rush to High Falls:
It is clear to me that the High Falls HISTORIC District is the perfect home for a museum of transportaton. The building that once housed Jillians and Saddle Ridge happens to be a former trolley barn for the city’s once-extensive streetcar system.
I like it! But he’s not done:
Given that the trolley barn is located immediately adjacent to the CSX main line; wouldn’t it be fun to ride that same historic trolley between High Falls and the Public Market using the CSX right-of-way? Not only would the trolley serve a real transportation purpose, and possibly generate income for the museum, it would surely bring crowds of people to High Falls every Saturday morning.
One of his commenters even goes as far as to suggest that there be a “museum line” that would shuttle folks between Strong, Eastman House, etc. Why aren’t Man About Town and his readers in charge?
This is a very cool idea, and yet another reason why M.A.T. makes the big bucks.
When I took the kids to the NYMT last summer, they were building a new model railroad line that was an exact replica of Rochester’s old subway system. As I admired the attention to detail, one of the knowledgeable, seasoned railroad guys came up to me and told me the fascinating story of the subway, and how it was shut down overnight.
I hate to be skeptical, as in general this idea is very forward thinking and would be great for downtown … but the finances are just going to kill this idea. I have no idea what the rent on the former Jillians building is, but I don’t see how a museum that saw 6,000 visitors in a year could afford to locate to such a high-rent district. Even if you assume that the attendance would double or triple given the new more accessible location, I can’t see how the museum could afford the rent. Since neither Jillians nor Saddle Ridge could succeed there with a much wider base of appeal than just train fans, the thought that the NYMT could succeed is ludicrous.
The idea that CSX would allow a trolley on its property also doesn’t seem like it is going to fly — but — even if CSX was agreeable, who is going to pay for the (very expensive) laying of new rail to accommodate the trolley?
Howdy, fellow Liberals and Trolley Jollies. In addition to being an occational instigator on this page, I am also the guy who made the DVD about the Rochester Subway with my friend, Fred Armstrong of Animatus Studio. For those interested, New York Archives magazine is publishing an article I wrote about the subway in its upcoming Spring issue. Sadly, I have to agree with the dj; I’m a member of NYMT, and I don’t know how they could get the traffic to support that location. Also, in their current digs, they have the actual tracks of the Rochester Subway’s west end (Dutchtown and Tenth Ward) re-laid between their museum and a sister museum, the Genessee Valley Railway Museum, a mile and a half away at Industry. That museum is centered around an old train station and specializes in locomotives and large main line rolling stock, which stits outside and would overflow a trolley barn. They also have the only surviving Rochester Subway car, Car 60, in its own building undergoing a slow restoration. They would definately not fit at High Falls, and detached from NYMT, would flounder. Visitors coming to both museums seem to like the “day in the country” atmosphere, riding the little track cars and a restored trolley past cows and barns. I think their 6,000 per year attendance would go down in a more urban location, unfortunately. I moved here 16 years ago from Manhattan, and as a Cub Scout Leader had to tell Irondequoit moms how to get to the Strong Museum. All they knew about Downtown was driving around it on the Loop. There are suburbanites in this community who will just not go Downtown for anything, except maybe a hockey game at the War Memorial, and then they will leave as fast as possible. I disagree, but it’s a fact. All of this is part of the story of the subway’s demise. For those interested, the link for New York Archives magazine is http://www.nysarchivestrust.org/apt/archivesmag/ The Animatus Studio link for “The End of the Line - Rochester’s Subway” DVD is http://animatusstudio.com/subway/index.html Excelsior.
I would agree that there is a perception (which I share) that most suburbanites do not want to go downtown to that particular area, and this caused the demise of Jillians, Saddle Ridge and other entertainment venues. I can recall myself going down to that area for some entertainment, and being told by someone I knew that he was never coming back because his van was broken into and many items were stolen, while it was sitting in the parking garage.
I wish I didn’t feel unsafe downtown, but I do.
Unfortunately, parking your car in an “Urban Area” requires different rules than in the ‘burbs. This comes from someone who lived 14 years in the East Village of Manhattan. People used to disconnect the coils from their batteries, even REMOVE their batteries and leave notes on the dashboard reading, “NOTHING of value in the car!” That’s a lot to go through, and more than anyone in Rochester is likely ever going to go for, but the question is; is it worth it? In Manhattan, for the people who did it, the answer was “yes”. For the millions of Greater New York suburbanites who never go into The City, the answer is “no”. It’s the same with Rochester. There is no convienient parking for Dinosaur BBQ, but the place is packed every night. Why? Because it’s cool and people are willing to put up with “whatever” to go there. My point is that the audience a trolley museum attracts; families with small children and old folks who remember trolleys, are not inclined to put up with the same hassle. Sometimes they don’t know the rules, even when told. My brother-in-law from Rochester visited me in NYC once and had his car broken in to because he ignored my advice to leave NOTHING that could even be percieved as valuable in sight. They smashed his window and got an empty paper bag. No one from NYC would have made that mistake. It’s wrong and it’s a pain, but it’s how it is. If suburbanites wait until parking in downtown Rochester is as convienent and “safe” as it is on their own street, they will be waiting until The Rapture. Even in the “good ol’ days”, cities were edgier than the country. It’s worse now, and will probably never go back to 1939, but it’s all a matter of trade-offs; is it worth the risk? If it’s the only way to see a pro hockey team, or eat BBQ overlooking the Genny, or attend Drinking Liberally, some will say, “yes”. More will say, “no”, but it’s your target audience that counts. The target audience for trains and trolleys will probably say, “no” and talk about the good ol’ days riding trolleys downtown. Go figure. Excelsior.
Ok; here’s a way to address this and another thread the dj and I have been discussing, however obliquely. Anyone interested in the Rochester Subway is welcome to attend a screening of our DVD and a talk by the filmmakers next Tuesday, March 27 at Lutheran Church of Concord, 485 Holmes Rd, between Long Pond Rd and Fetzner Rd., south of Ridge Road West in Greece. The evening will be free of charge and is sponsored by The Association of University Women, Greece Branch, which I understand is a strong, unbending branch. The meeting starts at 7 p.m. with light refreshments and fellowship (I assume University and Non-University men will not be turned away), followed by a short business meeting before the program. The trick for Liberals on this page will be to find a local tavern for OUR fellowship. Hint: the Co-Directors prefer Ale. Excelsior.
I’m glad that my modest little blog occasionally garners the interest of other intelligent members of the blogosphere. Thanks are owed to the good folks at Rochester Turning for pointing people in the direction of the Rant.
Sadly, I’m confused how folks can claim to be “liberal” and then say that they feel unsafe downtown. What is it that makes you feel unsafe? Homeless? Minorities? Large crowds? If so, what kind of “liberal” are you? When I lived in Fairport, my car was broken into twice. Would I avoid Fairport because of that? Absolutely not. So why does/should downtown be treated any differently?
Also, please explain how moving downtown would harm the attendance of an institution that only attracts 6k people a year? Certainly it couldn’t do much worse. I doubt very few people even know where Rush is. Contrary to popular belief, everyone knows where downtown is. This may come as a shocker, but Strong Museum has had no problem attracting 600,000 people to their little corner of town. If they can be successful, if the Susan B Anthony House can be successful, if the Memorial Art Gallery can be successful, why couldn’t NYMT? Why must we in the Rochester area always come up with reasons why things WON’T work, rather than trying to figure out how things CAN work?