Talkin’ about NY Taxes: Another way we’re trapped in “right-wing world”
This is a real burr in my saddle. I’ve been meaning to bring it up for a while but I guess I’ve been waiting for the perfect post to form in my head. Looks like it ain’t gonna happen, so let me just say this: I submit that we’ve been duped, state-wide, by a right-wing frame. What frame is that, you ask? That NYS taxes are bad. Guess what? They aren’t.
(The room goes silent, except for a sharp intake of breath from progressives and conservatives alike. The barkeep slowly reaches for the phone to dial 911.)
What, am I crazy?
Well, maybe, but not on this. We’re talking about taxes the wrong way. We’re giving the right wing a free pass, and severely handicapping the ability of progressive government to improve the common good.
“Well”, you may harrumph. “How do you propose we talk about it them? Everyone hates taxes.”
Yeah, no kidding. Well, I hate brushing my teeth, and I REALLY FREAKIN HATE flossing (apologies to all you progressive dentists out there). And I’d much rather spend all my money on world travel and cool gadgets than squirreling it away for my kids and the future.
But if I don’t brush or floss, just because I hate it, what happens to my teeth? If I blow all my cash on Carribean cruises, how am I gonna survive the next layoff from my employer?
We view taxes as a burden. Well, guess what else is a burden? Insane healthcare costs. How about energy costs? Education? Don’t get me started.
But you don’t hear politicians talking about those burdens in the same way, do you? No, it’s all about lowering taxes. When tax dollars, spent wisely, could be used to defray or even eliminate some of those burdens.
Instead of the broken record of “cut cut cut”, how about we look at taxes as our INVESTMENT in our region, state, and country? How about we look at it as all of us putting our money together to build something better than we could do on our own?
Medicaid costs too high? How about we stop complaining about taxes used to fund it, and start going after the big-ticket provider fraud.
Energy costs too high? How about we stop complaining about taxes and ask how our taxes could be invested in improving our state’s renewable energy program, so homeowners can defray the cost of installing solar and wind power, and spark the local economy?
Education costs too high? How about looking at ways of using our tax investments to lower the economic bar required to pay for education?
I could go on. But these are the ways we need to talk about taxes. Cutting them is just “starving the beast until we can drown it in the bathtub” –Grover Norquist, right-winger extrordinaire.
Please feel free to agree with me or rip me to shreds in the comments. Let’s talk about how we talk about taxes. 
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I have to give credit to NYCO for finally kicking my butt into writing this, by posting this:
Yes, please.
Too often the powers that be do what is easy rather than what is right. It seems that our society is tied to a 3 month wall street cycle and we have a limited attention span.
Investment in the future is the key. It takes time and vision.
I’m not sure how this fits in, but here is some food for thought. We spend billions of dollars on health care research every year, in the effort to develop new medical interventions. In other words, we subsidize people, so they can make a heck of a lot of money, and help improve some of our health care, some of the time.
The upshot of this is that our health care costs are skyrocketing due to “innovation inflation,” yet ~45 million folks are without formal health care coverage and the number is rising. Of course, if we directed even a small portion of this research funding toward the uninsured, we would have universal coverage.
In other words, I think you’re right. Its less about how much we spend and more about how we spend the money.
Besides, all those “fiscally conservative” Republican legislators are a bunch of hypocrites. Since when has a Republican President reduced spending? From my recollection, a massive surplus was amassed during the Clinton years, after many years of debt built up under Reagan and Bush, only to be squandered by another Republican President who wants to make his defense contracting and oil producing cronies rich.
Liberals spend tax dollars on improving people’s lives. Conservatives spend on their friends. Remind me again, what is the purpose of Government?
In other words, I think you’re right. Its less about how much we spend and more about how we spend the money.
Besides, all those “fiscally conservative†Republican legislators are a bunch of hypocrites. Since when has a Republican President reduced spending? From my recollection, a massive surplus was amassed during the Clinton years, after many years of debt built up under Reagan and Bush, only to be squandered by another Republican President who wants to make his defense contracting and oil producing cronies rich.
Liberals spend tax dollars on improving people’s lives. Conservatives spend on their friends. Remind me again, what is the purpose of Government?
Whoops, replied in the wrong place. See posts below.
OMG! An invitation to talk about taxes! Did you know you would attract tax policy wonks? Here is what one thinks: for both tax collection and govt spending, the “how” is really important. Equity issues abound. Some in NYS are overtaxed; some are getting away paying less than their fair share. Like, for instance, Wal-Mart, which avoids NYS taxes through a tax loophole that involves paying rent to itself, Sheriff Spitzer is proposing that we clean that up, as well as proposing “combined reporting” to close another, similar tax dodge used by large corps that operate in many states. Read all about it at andVN:F [1.6.5_908]
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Hey robinia!
That sounds very cool.
FYI, I rescued your comment from the spam lint trap, so it may have gotten cut off.
If you like this topic, just wait till I get going about CSAs and organic farming!
Many thanks for the comment rescue– and, yeah, you got my number on the CSA/organic farming thing. Not clear I am doing the links here properly, so, just check out http://www.ctj.org if you would like to read about combined reporting for corps. Duval in MA is also looking at it. Stops corps from shifting profits to a post office box in DE to not have them taxed.
For a long time now I have liked the idea of framing taxes as an investment, but only when they are spent as such. The issue here, as many have pointed out, is the “how.” Taxes are generally poured into projects that have no chance of succeeding (don’t get me started on Renaissance Square), nor any chance of making the city/county/state back the money that it spent, nor getting enough public benefit out of it to justify the spending. Tax money is generally lumped together by the right-wingers into a single category for discussion, but there are a number of different categories it should be divided into. Subsidies, investment, and charity, to name a few.
You mean like the Iraq war? Oh wait, that’s federal level taxation.
Do you think something like “participatory budgeting” would help?
Taxes are high in New York. And as I like to say, all taxes are a regressive tax on the poor. Sure, income tax is graduated, but here are some taxes that are not:
Property txes (even with a $75 refund on $5,000 worth of rent or housing per year)
Sales taxes (where I live, 9%, down from 9.75%)
Fees (garbage and water, flat fees unaffected by personal income)
So, instead of paying off bills, the poor are having money taken for the collective good. In Oneida County, many jobs are in the under $18,000 “poverty” range. At least a third of that goes to housing. Another third goes to food and electricity (some of the highest rates in the country). Let’s see, if we want some health insurace (since these low wage jobs don’t offer it and NY doesn’t cover it above an income of $10,000) we’ll need another $1600. Well, that leaves us with about $84 a week in walking around money. Unless we need to drive, or have a phone, or cable TV, or the internet.
Whoops. I forgot about income taxes. Guess we’re back to $0. Maybe a poor person can lose their job and be cradled in NYS accepting bosom of social welfare programs.
In recent times, rates of taxation in a particular state closely correlate to state-wide school performance. That is, high tax states have first-rate schools, low-tax states have lousy schools. Last year, I noticed that NY has the highest tax rates in the nation, but only the 5th best schools. By contrast Massachusetts had the best schools and something like the 5th highest national tax rate. So, the two big questions I have about taxation are:
1) Why aren’t NY state taxes going to make our schools the best in the nation?
2) Why is NY allowing cheapskate (read, low tax-lousy school) states like Texas and North Carolina to steal our educated people after the state has gone to the trouble and expense of training them?
1. Because NY is espacially wasteful with tax money.
2. Because NY punishes poeple with skills and education with tax policy.
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